Speaker Profiles:
Dr. Paul Goodman is a dentist, multiple-practice owner, transitions broker, and the founder of both Dental Nachos and Dentist Job Connect. Dental Nachos is a community of over 75,000 dentisting humans who come together to network, share resources, and engage in live and on demand CE. Dentist Job Connect is a platform and service for dentists looking for associateships and practice owners and group practices looking to hire. After graduating from the University of Pennsylvania School of Dental Medicine in 2002, Dr. Goodman pursued additional training at Albert Einstein Medical Center in Philadelphia. Dr. Goodman lives in Center City, Philadelphia with his wife and two daughters and goldendoodle.
Mike Olson is PNC Bank’s Sr. Healthcare Industry Advisor and has extensive experience in private practice mergers and acquisitions, private equity and financial services relationship management. Mike serves as PNC’s healthcare industry subject matter expert concentrating within the medical and dental space. His responsibilities include identifying and researching emerging trends, speaking at Medical and Dental Schools and Societies and proactively building relationships with national Centers of Influence across the PNC footprint.
Video Transcript:
Dr. Goodman: Welcome to the Fraud and Embezzlement Podcast with our special guest, Mike Olson, Senior Healthcare Industry Advisor with PNC Bank. PNC Healthcare Business Banking is a new Dental Notches sponsor, and before we get started, it's important that we disclose to you that all loans, lines of credit, and PNC Bank credit cards are subject to credit approval. Bank deposit products and services are provided by PNC Bank National Association Member FDIC.
So we're excited to talk with you today, Mike. Tell us a little bit about this topic.
Mike Olson: Well, thank you for having me today, Dr. Nacho. I believe fraud is an important topic today for not only dental offices, but for all healthcare businesses.
Dr. Goodman: I am totally with you. I couldn't agree more, and I know that the ADA had connected with Roger Levin, DDS, who I admire, and CEO of the Levin Group, who surveyed thousands of dental offices. The article stated that one third of dental offices have been embezzled once, while 17% more than once.
Mike Olson: Unfortunately, that's true. What I find even more fascinating is about 90% of all fraud losses that occur are being done by an employee at the office. The median loss in a healthcare practice is $100,000, according to the 2024 Association of Certified Fraud Examiners' Report to the Nations.
Dr. Goodman: Those are some really large numbers. I also want to add in, all of us have these giant water bottles here in our lives now. Lived without them, Mike, but now a big part of my life, this giant water bottle. I always share that us dentists, we hand craft what we do tooth by tooth. While I would not want any fraud or loss, if I lost 100 water bottles that I didn't hand craft, that's different than losing the money or not making the money for 100 fillings that you do. I think that context, since I am a dentist and I know what it means to do what I call full contact arts and crafts on people who don't want to be there or pay for it, that just drives home how upsetting it is to a dental practice owner on so many different levels. When you say fraud losses, can you explain a little more exactly what you mean by that?
Mike Olson: Absolutely. Occupational fraud has three main types, asset misappropriation, corruption, and financial statement fraud. Almost 90% of the fraud that occurs in a dental office is asset misappropriation, which basically just means the theft of cash. So whether it be the petty cash, patient payments, or redirecting insurance or patient check payments to personal accounts, or creating fake businesses accounts to accept these checks or online payments. It could be payable theft, which means using a corporate card for your personal expenses, writing checks for personal use, or purchasing supplies for personal use. You know, some employees actually do payroll theft, and this means giving themselves a raise, over giving them maybe a little bit of a bonus, maybe get some extra hours, taking some family and friends and adding them to payroll unbeknownst to the doctor. So there's all these different times presenting where all the different things that the doctor needs to review.
Dr. Goodman: I'm with you, and you know, for someone who can stand up for the dental practice owner, the complexity of running a dental practice, the number of vendors you have to pay, the number of payrolls, it's easier to miss this than people think. So people are sitting there thinking, oh my gosh, I would never miss that. They would have to think again. I think our members would really like to know what kind of behaviors or red flags can they look out for to combat these challenges? What are some examples of that?
Mike Olson: Well, so that's a great question. Dentists need to pay particular attention to those employees that seem to be living well beyond their means or potentially have gone through a divorce or having some family or marital problems. These could be signs of money issues. You also need to be aware of your office culture. Is someone controlling and unwilling to share duties with other people? Are they bullying and intimidating others? We also find some of the employees that are stealing tend to protect their space. They don't allow others to review or see what they're working on. They also tend to not take time off working nights and weekends, even when others aren't around. This allows them to have unlimited access without the risk of being caught.
Dr. Goodman: Good, great points there. And you know, I have a friend who had dealt with this years ago and he thought, you know, my practice isn't doing well. I am not, you know, producing enough. And it was really demoralizing and financially devastating combination there when that had happened to them. It sounds like a lot to put on practice owners. You mentioned earlier, they're already busy with patients, staffing and their own personal life. Are there any recommendations on where practice owners can go for to get help with this?
Mike Olson: Absolutely. We recommend, Dr. Nacho, that they speak with a banker who specializes in health care and specifically health care payments. They can advise on big supported solutions that help mitigate fraud risk in the office. Second, engage with your CPA or other trusted advisors that can access your internal controls. Many dentists are fooled into believing that because they have a CPA, they're reviewing their practice financials and will catch fraud activity. Most accounting services are simply compiling your financial statements, reconciling your bank accounts, and then filing an annual tax return. We suggest you have a more extensive talk with your CPA and advisors to find out what other clients they have are doing to combat the risk of fraud.
Dr. Goodman: Really good tips there. Totally hits home there. Would you mind sharing some internal controls that an office can do to protect their practice?
Mike Olson: Yeah. Here at PNC, we recommend our clients at a minimum do some background checks on all the employees. We also suggest mandating a full weeks of vacation. So time away from an office can potentially expose a bad actor. And train your team members on how to spot red flags and report them. As an owner, adding internal controls like keeping checks locked, conducting random audits of financial functions, utilizing online banking, and timely reconciling of bank accounts is paramount. Using dual control for supply ordering, processing payroll, patient payment processing, and depositing into bank accounts is also a best practice.
Dr. Goodman: Seems like those are things all offices can implement. I like the HR functions of background checks and empowering the team to see something and say something. You mentioned bank-supported solutions and online banking to reconcile and monitor your accounts. Can you tell us more about what those bank solutions are referring to?
Mike Olson: Yeah, sure, Dr. Nacho. Implementing an ACH block in your account, this prevents others from being able to debit your account via ACH. We also have ACH check positive pay. These solutions allow you to approve which ACH debits can be drafted from your account each day. Or it allows the bank to match a particular check number, dollar amount, and payee to a list that you have provided the bank in advance so we can kind of take a look. So this needs to be, you need to get out of cadence, a daily, a weekly, monthly, etc. If the presented check that comes in through your account doesn't match the list that you provided, the bank's going to go ahead and return it. There's also a very simple solution called UPIC, which is a routing and account number that masks your actual checking account and routing number, so others that think that that's your real account, they can't have access. This is tied to your checking, which provides you that extra added safety, and no one can debit that account then, so it's really safe. And the great thing is, by all means, if you change banks, you can go ahead and take that account number with you, and you just change the back office solution or account that it's linked to. Really good solution there.
Dr. Goodman: Awesome. I mean, this is something, obviously it goes without saying, I wish they talked more about in dental school, because, you know, just you would have some awareness of this. Running a dental practice has so many moving parts and pieces. I was just sharing with some non-dentists last night that the dentist is in the operatory, in a patient's mouth, working on that, and it's just impossible to monitor everything. You need people to help you. You need people to check with you. This has been so useful. Is there any final message you would like to leave our audience members with?
Mike Olson: Well, fraud and embezzlement is a big risk, and it's just not going to go away. According to the Certified Fraud Examiner's 2025 Fraud Report, healthcare organizations lose 5% of their revenue from fraud each year. We've already talked about the median loss being $100,000, yet 43% of organizations that were victim of fraud, they didn't even file a criminal report or file a civil suit. The perpetrators just got fired, moved on, potentially went to work for another office. It's all of our jobs to protect the dental community from these risks. I would like to offer any of your members the opportunity to speak with one of our healthcare banking relationship managers and their healthcare treasury management professionals to review their office protocols. There is no cost to meet with our team, and all the conversations are absolutely confidential.
Healthcare is the largest segment that PNC serves. We have over 51,000 clients and have $39 billion in capital committed to this industry for private practices to the largest health systems and payers in the U.S. Our nationwide team of healthcare business bankers is highly trained to understand the unique complexities healthcare practices face. We have been dedicated to private practices for more than 25 years.
Our clients work with a dedicated healthcare relationship manager and healthcare treasury management advisors who understand the complex realities of running a dental practice. Together, they deliver tailored solutions to help strengthen your cash flow, help improve profitability, and securely manage patient payments. We provide solutions like specialty lending, equipment financing, technology upgrades, practice expansion, and real estate purchases.
Beyond the practice, clients also have access to wealth expertise to support personal financial planning, asset protection, and long-term goals.
Dr Goodman: Thank you for sharing that. We'll share all this with our audience and the generous offer to help us and check into things. I appreciate the support as a sponsor and partner. We're going to make the lives of dentists better together. So appreciate you sharing with us today, Mike.
Mike Olson: Thank you.
